Pond Liner attaching to existing concrete block wall   11/12/2005
Bob,
First, I'm a big fan of your books. Even though I've never meet you I've heard a lot about you when I used to work at Octopus's Garden.

I have been in the Reef Tank Hobby for 4 years now and have a nice setup that is thriving because I followed your advice found in your books.  I am now putting in a 3000 gallon pond in my backyard. The hole is dug

and the liner has been shipped. The problem I have is that the liner has to attach to a the cement block wall of my garage. What method would you suggest I attach it to the wall with. I plan on attaching that side first and leaving the rest able to adjust and settle when I start to fill the pond.
Thanks,
Dave MacLeod
 
 

Have you heard of a powdered pond liner 8/17/05
I would like to know what this product is and how to use it. If you have any
information on it. I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Sylvia

Re: Have you heard of a powdered pond liner 8/20/05
This stuff looks like sugar granules. You just put it in the pond and
circulate the water. And it stops the leaks. I put it in the pond today and the water
looks like syrup. I sure hope it settles.
Sylvia

Leaking 25ml polyethylene liner 8/17/05
Hi crew,
I've had a leaking pond for 7 years. It is made of 25 ml polyethylene
and I know where the leak is at. I have tried to clean it very
carefully and re-tape it with 6" tape from the company I bought the
liner from several times. The tape has worked great except for one
place. It is on the north side of the pond and it almost never dries
out. What type of solvent is best for cleaning the liner to prepare it for tape?
<... alcohols are about the safest most thorough...>
I have been using rubbing  alcohol, since it dries so fast, but I'm thinking there must be some type of solvent that is
specifically suited for polyethylene. Also since the area that has to be re-taped has many curves and 25 ml  polyethylene is so rigid is there a better material that can be used to go over the polyethylene, but will stick to it.

My pond is approximately 120'x30'x9'deep. Replacing  
the entire liner is out of the question, it has a  shelf all the way around it with rock placed in the shelf and a rock walkway all around the top of the pond. I have spent literally hundreds of hours of my time getting it to this point.  The repair has to be made in place. If you can give me some suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Dynamite is my next option. HELP
Thanks in advance
Tim
Bob Fenner>

Re: leaking 25ml polyethylene liner 8/17/05
That sure made my day, your site is a great source of info. thanks


Lessons in liner differences... some are toxic to pond life 8/5/05
We are new to the Koi Hobby, and just built our 1st pond in May,  we have
had 7 fish since July, but developed a slice our current liner, so we had
men come out and put in a new PVC Blue liner,

We moved the fish to a large
horse tank  for 3 weeks, while we went bigger and deeper with the pond. we
went to our first Koi Pond tour, and got new info and designs.

Needless to
say, they finished installing the new liner on Sat, July 30, and we got the
filters going,  the water was clear on Tuesday night, and water test are
good, so the fish were transferred back to the pond. We came out on Wed
night and the small fish were dead,  The large one was still doing ok,
swimming around. We took the water in for testing on Wed night, and all the
water tests are normal.  I questioned the oxygen,  it is a 1800 gal pond.
But that came within limit, he indicated that bigger fish would have died
first if not enough oxygen.

The water filters completely 2 times a hour with
the pumps/filters.  Today the large Koi is dead.  The pond people said that
maybe the liner is toxic,

How can we Tell,    the liner people said it is
non toxic.  

We have well water,  have added  nothing except Koi Clay.  He
gave us black crystals to put in a hose and put in the outlet water, to
capture any toxins.
<...>
Help!!   My husband is terribly upset as are the children.  If it is the
liner, how can we fix it??

   If it is the liner, can it be treated, so we do
not have to tear it out,  does it wear off?

Carolyn

Lake liner 7/9/05
Hi-

I stumbled upon your great site and I’m hoping you can help me out.  My
boss is planning to build a rather large lake on his mountain side
property here in Ojai.  The lake dimensions are 200’x100’x150’ and we’re
trying to determine the best type of liner to use.  The soil in the
mountainside is rather impermeable…we’ve had difficulty passing perc
tests because the ground is so hard.  Our contractor and ranch foreman
recommend using a 30 mil PVC liner, but my boss is hell-bent on using a
clay liner.

  How much would a clay liner run on a lake this size?
<... depends on the make-up of current basin bottom... a mix material has to be dished in... likely cheaper by far than pvc>
Is it even worth using?

  He’s talked about bentonite and gunite.  Thanks for
your input!

Emily Warmann

Repairing a pond liner, literacy
HI,
   We have a pond in our back yard that has a rubber like stiff liner. And it
has a leak. Is there anything I can use to repair it.
    thank you  Marty Soloman


Concrete block pond construction
I have read with great interest (and thanks) your section on building a pond with concrete block. The walls will be concrete block and I am going to use an EPDM liner. How does one attach the liner to the block under the coping?


Custom-shaped pond liner
Do you know of any companies that make custom shaped pond liners?

I am building a 600g indoor water feature (for Koi) in my new office.  It is oddly shaped and five-sided, about 3 ft deep, and I was wondering if I could get a 3 dimensional pond liner custom made to fit it rather than face the creases caused excess liner?
Thanks very much...
Jeff


Pond liner in tank
Situation:
Excellent site with good faq's but mine is a bit specific...
Built a plywood tank and used pond liner (instead of epoxy), and sealed it up with GE 1200 Silicone.  (I got it from a tank builder so I assume its aquaria safe).  

I just poured RO water and after 2 days the water started clouding a bit.  Is this a result of the silicone?

Is this normal and will running the water through carbon clear it up?

Right now the water is just standing with no movement.

Or, is the EPDM pond liner giving something off.... I assume the liner is safe to use for fish seeing as they use it for ponds....  Do I need to prepare it before use?
Please help!
Thanks
Lee

Seaweed ponds
Hi.

We have built 2 (50 x 20 metre) ponds for a trial in seaweed production, using saline groundwater.  At present the ponds are not lined, but I feel that they are leaking and could cause environmental problems.  As our local black plastic (polythene) comes in 50 x 4 metre rolls we will have to join 5 large sheets together.  How would you suggest this could be done?  Maybe they could be heated together!!

Thanks
Charlie Gillingham
Lake Charm
Victoria
Australia


Question on toxicity of pond liner repair
I have a question. I have a 100 gallon pond set up in my remodeled  attic
with some of the smaller fish I bring in for the winter from my  outdoor pond. I
had to fix a minor hole near the top of the plastic liner.  I was wondering if
the epoxy glue that I used can affect my fish in any  way. Thank you for your
time.  
Len



Pond Liner
Mr. Fenner,

How about 36 mil polypropylene for a pond liner? This product is
manufactured by Bend Tarp and Liner, Inc. as a liner for holding ponds,
etc. They will cut custom dimensions will should be a plus because of
the layout my pond will have. I won't have to make any seams. It's also
cheaper than many products I've found.
Thanks,
John Jordan



Swimming pond 7/28/04
I have a large area where I would like to put a pond.  It has a natural spring that will feed into it via a stream I built with 20 mil liner.  I would like to swim in it.  What liner options would work?  Would I need more sand?  The size of it would be about15ftx20ft. Thank you for your help. Alysia, Asp 

Pond with a view
Hello there, you have been so helpful with my marine problems; I can't help
share my pond concerns and thank you in advance for your wisdom. I'm in the
design phase of a pond approximately 5000 gallons that will have a viewing
panel in the adjacent attached sunk in patio. My question is - how the heck
to you get a good seal on an acrylic view port that will be about 2' high
and 3' wide? Is Acrylic even the best material for outdoors without direct
sunlight? We are in Tucson and are hoping to go with a cichlid pond as
opposed to the Koi pond which is why we so desire a side view into the pond.
Thank you for your time. Bill Roh

Re: Question regarding pond liners
Thank you for your recommendations, I'll look at the postings for shotcrete. Since I've written to you, we've interviewed a contractor who suggested troweling a concrete underlayment under the rubber liner to deter gophers. She is having to replace her mother's pond for that very reason (gophers).

The screen-wire mesh underneath the liner was to deter gophers from chewing from below, but I don't think it would last long before deterioration.
Thanks,
Linda

>Question regarding pond liners
>Dear Sir:
>I found your address on the WWM site, I hope you're the right person 
>to ask the question.
>We live in SE Arizona, and want to build a pond with waterfall 
>feature for birds, and also encourage dragonfly and damselfly 
>larvae. We do not plan on fish other than maybe a few Mosquitofish 
>or similar. The size is about 20x10'. The local pond builders 
>recommend the EPDM rubber liners. We have deer and also gophers. How 
>do the liners stand up to these two mammals? We could possibly have 
>javalinas, although they haven't' been in our yard in a year, they do 
>live in the Huachucas.
> >their claws, hooves>
>If a screen-wire mesh is put below the liner, it seems like it would 
>rust out quickly.
> >many such ponds using liners (generally 20 mil nominal PVC...) not 
>often but sometimes using an underlayment of carpet... to prevent 
>outright puncturing of the liner during construction, rock 
>placement. Almost invariably we shotcreted over and into a wire mesh 
>over the liner... I suggest you look into this technology (posted on 
>WetWebMedia.com) and do likewise. Bob Fenner>
>I appreciate your advice.
>Linda Feltner

Vinyl Liner Ponds
I got your email address from the website, WetWebMedia.com. I was hoping you could point me in the right direction for an article I'm working on for Pool & Spa News on How to Install a Vinyl Liner Pond. I am looking for builders to interview who can provide a step-by-step instruction on the construction on a vinyl or rubber liner pond. I have a couple of builders I have spoken to already, but need a few more to round out the story.

My deadline is quite soon--Tuesday, January 27 at noon--so any assistance you can provide will be helpful.
Thanks very much.
Janice Rhoshalle Littlejohn
Bob Fenner>
Janice Littlejohn
Pool & Spa News
www.poolspanews.com

Low cost operating pond pump 750 gal.
Hi!
I'm new in ponds matters, and I'm building a pond of approx. 750 gallons. I
need your help.
I need the best cost efficient pump for this size pond and the best liner
EPDM or the Tetra Pond Xavan liner?
Thank you for your help.  

KOI Pond Construction
Bob,
This is Keith Slinkard , Eric's Father-in-law .

I have some question about the mods that I am going to make to the design and enlarging my fishes habitat.
1. I purchased Firestone EPDM liner and I am concerned about the wrinkles that I think I will have . I think that I want to shot crete over the EPDM ,but can not find directions as to what to do with the wrinkles prior to applying the crete .

2. The size is as follows , 18' long X 8' wide X 2' deep with a 1' X 1' plant ledge around the perimeter. All walls are completely vertical . I think this will add to the wrinkles and make the shot crete application difficult. Should I angle them somewhat ?

3. I am going to change to a pond filter to like the one you exhibit in fig.10 of your Aquatic Gardens book on page 10 . With the volume of water that I need to move , do you suggest a dry pump, and if so what size ?  

4. Where do I place the supply line to the filter and how do I install it through the liner material to insure a water tight fitting .

Thank you in advance for your expertise and direction . Keith Slinkard   

PVC liners
hi--we're not creating a pond (have 2 clay ponds already) but need to use pvc of 20 mm thickness to surround our old house to prevent our major basement leaks.  plan to bury it to a depth of 12" then cover with gravel.  I need a piece(s) 6' x 40' -- where can I find such a creature?  thanks for your help--Lucinda
(Under manufacturers, etailers... and the clubs if any, in your area that have members that may have bought such size shaped liners). There are "scraps" of about the size you list that can be had, or welded together... so keep checking till you find someone who is really "in the business" or actually does fabrication. Bob Fenner>

Rock-looking pond liner - anyone?
I am looking for a pond liner that looks like rock, not the normal black color.  I saw company was selling them, but I can not re-find its web site.  Do you have any info on such an item?

Thanks, Dave

Concrete gold fish pond
I have asked this question to everyone I can find that knows any thing about concrete or ponds. Now I found this site so I will try you guys. Here goes : This summer I uncovered an old kidney shaped pond in my yard. It is aprox. 4' wide & 9' long. It now is about 30" deep , but appears it should be 6" to 8" deeper to be above grade. Before it was covered up who knows how many years ago, the top edge was broken off so it could be covered with dirt. The walls are made of a concrete & something mixture with 3" field stone mixed in for filler. The inside walls are nice & smooth, coated with a light gray mortar type material. My question is what is this concrete mixture? It seems years ago I heard that concrete & vermiculite where mixed sometimes to make a lighter & more workable mix. If that's true how do you go about something like this ? Any other advice on a pond of this material would be helpful! Thanks in advance .Steve from Ohio  
Skip ahead and around to the pieces on liner use/construction. Bob Fenner>

EPDM pond liner return channel...
Good Afternoon,
i would like to install a pond utilizing an EPDM pond liner but have limited room to provide a typical return for the end of the liner.  Does some sort of prefab, return channel system exist or has anyone made one that works well?  If so, what materials did you use, etc. etc.?  Thank you and i look forward to your response.
Regards,
Carol
<... a channel as in way to run plumbing back sight unseen you can install through hull fitting the liner and attach this remote it where want. or do want affix stream your existing basin be accomplished by overlapping section of over side basin... there are other mainly fiberglass streams filter boxes that positioned adjacent pond. some these more fully discussed illustrated on our pond subweb. index is here:> http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/Pond%20Sub%20Web.htm
Bob Fenner>

Re: EPDM pond liner return channel...
Hello Bob,
Thanks for the speedy reply!  It's obvious I'm using the wrong
terminology...i need some way to secure the liner without draping and
securing the liner over the pool edge.  The pool is rectilinear in shape
with vertical concrete pool walls.  i thought there may be some way to
fasten an aluminum, u-shaped (?) channel, or some other apparatus, that will
hold the pool liner in place above the water level.  The corners are also
going to be a nightmare to be sure.  Any suggestions???  Thanks again Bob!
Regards,
Carol

Re: EPDM pond liner return channel...
Good Morning Bob,
You are a life-saver!  Thanks for the info and support.  I'm sure we'll find
a solution now.

Regards,
Carol

Pond fish
dear crew,
    A fantail and a comet goldfish in my pond seem to have white pimple like spots on their gills.  I am unsure at what this is, but i have heard this could be related to spawning. Any ideas?

When i was visiting Canada recently i saw a huge goldfish that must have been released there.  We almost caught it with our net. I would have loved that fish for my pond.  Also, next year we are upgrading our pond to about 3000 gallons. What type of liner would you recommend?

I am currently using EPDM rubber, but if there is a better type i would like to know about it.

                                                            thanks
                                                                    Holden

LINERS TO GRANITE???
Apparently, you had some problems with my reply in all caps, sorry about that... I'll try again...
I'd like some further elaboration on the first technique you mentioned, (I.E. "We had some success with either joining the liners to such rockwork on their "front" sides "), as these boulders a far to large to lift. I'd be most interested in materials and techniques/processes (i.e., do you have to grind the granite down to a semi-smooth surface to get a good attachment or have you used some form of thick liquid glue material?

Thanks,
Shawn

Pond Liner Leak
Hey Crew,

I have a slow leak (About 100 to 150 gal. a day) in my reinforced woven 40 mil. plastic pond liner. The pond is approximately 4,000 gal. I noticed this problem after we had several days of cold weather in the lower 20 degrees. I am in S. GA. I drained the pond and repaired all the small holes, etc., I could see. I checked the seams from end to end. There are no leaks in the plumbing, UV, bio filter, etc. I still have the problem. Do you have any suggestions?? Is there a sealant I can use? Thanks, Charles
www.wetwebmedia.com for pond liner leak or pond liner repair. Ronni>

Pond Liner Bubble
We have a 1 acre pond which was lined with a nice thick liner a while back.

In the past few days however it has developed a 25' diameter bubble in the middle (see attached picture). Any ideas on how to fix the immediate problem and prevent a future recurrence?

Thanks, Glenn A. Hartzog

Pond shoreline design problem
Hello folks

I have been referred to your site by someone who answered one of the posts I have placed on several boards regarding this problem.

Before I ask my question I noticed someone with a home made food question, could I refer you to
http://www.easyfishkeeping.com/fishyforum/forums/message.asp?r=forums&t=General&I=1040
I now know about WNV but my fry have more than doubled in size on this diet in the past week. WNV is not a problem in the UK that I know of.

Anyway to get to my question or problem.
Back ground first
I have built( finished building last night, just touch ups and this shoreline left) a concrete pond of aprox 2200 UK gal 2600 US gal.
It has three depths, 4', 2', 1' and vertical walls. I will be using a plastic liner, pvc or Dupont Xavan, I can afford butyl.
The pond is above existing ground level by 1' and will have a visible wall on 2 sides, a hedge on the 3rd and a rockery with waterfall on the 4th.
I will 'line ' the concrete with expanded polystyrene sheeting ( Styrofoam, I think ) to protect the liner rather than use underlay.

BUT
Basic outline of my problem.
I want to cast, in cement or concrete, a ramp on top of the upper coarse of block work to create a semi submerged shoaling shoreline. I intend the ramp to start 2.5" below the water surface and for it to rise to 0.5" above the water surface, gradient 1 in 3. It is to allow animal access/escape to/from the pond.

For the purposes of this post I am concerned only with the construction problems, I have taken into consideration my possible UNWELCOME visitors and here in the UK we don't have the diversity of predators that exist in N. America, I hope the rest of the pond design will keep my fish safe.

I see 2 ways of completing my shoreline
1) bring the liner up over the ramp, or
2) bring the liner over the top of the inner leaf of block work and drop it into the air space, then cast the ramp on top of the liner and outer leaf .
I favour the second method, it will be neater and provide a better surface finish. Obviously I will seal the ramp with some thing like G4 or P1 ( common UK sealants ) but I am troubled by the "triple point" where water, liner and ramp meet.

How do I seal this properly?
I had thought of 'painting' the sealant across the junction and onto the liner but I have been told that solvents in some solvent based sealants may damage the liner, i.e. G4. 

I can get water based sealant which should be ok, P1.

Other solutions based on idea 2 are
1) In addition to the above run a bead of silicone aquarium sealer around the "triple point" , possibly in a rebate cast into the cement and cut out of the polystyrene

2) Bring the liner up 'behind ' the back of the ramp so that the liner finishes above water level, but this may create neatness issues also it doesn't provide a secure foundation for the shoreline.

3) Cast the shore line in sections, seal all of each section and then 'glue' it down onto the liner with silicone aquarium sealer.

One area I will have to silicon goo is the folds in the liner where they pass over the block work.
Additions resulting from replies to my posts are
1) cast the ramp in waterproof concrete, a simple idea that will help greatly, why didn't I think of it and does away with "3)" above

2) cover the triple point with liner seaming tape.

I would be very grateful for your thoughts on my problem and solutions and for any ideas that you have. Thank you Sean McKinney

Re: pond shoreline design problem
Thanks for your reply to my last email,

your point about liner longevity is well noted,
the adhesion of silicon goo to plastic hadn't occurred to me, thanks for that,
I have just had a trial run at liner installation using 2 sheets of 6m x 4m polythene joined with brown parcel tape to make a single sheet 6m x 8m.
Judging by the folds I have had to included I may well have to bring my liner " up behind the back of the ramp " . Your favored solution. I very much doubt that I could seal all the folds with the silicon goo.

Thanks for your input.

Leaking Pond Liner
Do you know of any product that can be sprayed or painted onto an existing pvc liner to make it water tight? The liner is only a few years old but it no longer holds water.

Thanks, Fiona Casarini

Pond Liner for Salt tank set up?
Bob,
First off LOVE THE site!!
Just found it and it's a wealth of info. I have a quick question 4 yaw.
I'm considering making a large salt tank and was wondering if the normal
pond liners would be ok for constructing a salt tank used for sharks and
rays etc..... If pond liner won't work is there any other material other
than the Rubbermaid tanks etc...... I want an indoor pond but with sharks I
figured the cheapest way to get a 6x12 tank would be to go pond liner..
Thanks and keep up the good work. and thanks in advance.

Regards,
Robert C. Taggett

Pond Advise
Bob, I am assisting a landscape customer with the installation of a water feature just off of her patio. It will be concrete block with a veneer of brick to match the back wall on property line against which the pool will be built. She has about 5 goldfish and prefers no plants. We plan to use an in-line pump with a pressurized filter. A bottom drain will also be installed. Because my client wants an interior color of aqua green, we decided to make the concrete, rectangular structure and line it with a 30 ml aqua turquoise liner. Will we need to treat or paint with a rubber paint the concrete before we install the liner? Thank you for your help, Sally Rudisill, Landscape Designer, Owensboro, KY

Pond liner
Please see our website at www.bendtarp.com for information on the nation's best pond liner values. Please contact us if you would like a color brochure with samples.

Thank you,
Bend Tarp and Liner, Inc.
1-800-280-0712
[email protected]

PVC liners
Please quote your best price for PVC liners, 20 mills thick, black color.
The application is for irrigation canals.

Hatem

Repair Question (Liner Pond)
Robert,
This is Doug Carrion. I live in Los Angeles Ca.
About 2 weeks ago I had some trees cut back on my
property, only to find that one of the branches while trimming
punctured the bottom of our Koi Pond. 

I had just bought the
house, so I am brand new to the world. It looks to me like it is a
black liner of some sort. How would I know which material this pond is?

Also, for repairing, do I take the chance of melting the material if I choose
the wrong patch? Well if you could point me in the right direction, I would
greatly appreciate the help,
Thanks
Carrion